Posts by Nathan Natas

39

This Is It?

by Nevuela in

i can't say much out of fear of getting caught, but i overheard a jw i know on the phone with a friend talking about "how close we are to the end.

" yeah, yeah, i know.

we've been on the brink of armageddon for well over a century, but what struck me about this particular instance was what she said next.

Nathan Natas

Let me point you to a free download of

"Visions Of Glory: a History and a Memory of Jehovah's Witnesses" by Barbara Grizzuti Harrison

https://www.watchtowerlies.com/linked/visions_of_glory_a_history_and_a_memory_of_jehovahs_witnesses_barbara_harrison_1978.pdf

58

Two witness rule: who cares?

by _Morpheus in

i find people railing against the so called “two witness rule” puzzling.

i think its a complete and total non issue.

for those that protest, argue or advocate for change in that rule, why?

"A part of my point here as well is that in complaining about the so called two witness rule, the ex jw community is actually validating the orgs right to have a say in this... They dont...I dont care what their rules are. As i have noted a dozen times already, its irrelevant... The allegations belong in the hands of law enforcement, period."

I ABSOLUTELY AGREE!

58

Two witness rule: who cares?

by _Morpheus in

i find people railing against the so called “two witness rule” puzzling.

i think its a complete and total non issue.

for those that protest, argue or advocate for change in that rule, why?

Nathan Natas

Heydog said, in part,

"...once a person is determined to be a child molester (even if they never get disfellowshipped for it), they can NEVER serve in any capacity at the Kingdom Hall."

I'm going to challenge that. In the past the WTB&TS has clearly stated that after a period of time such a brother CAN serve, and that theory has been proven in practice; it has happened.

I left in the mid-late 1970s and I was only an MS and pioneer when I did, so there is a gulf of time and "hands-on experience" between us. I was in the Middle Village, Queens, New York City congregation, and my terminal issue was a serial pedophile we had in our congregation who was one of the "6-month wonders" we had back then prior to Armageddon coming in 1975. Remember that? I hear that today Armageddon is ALMOST as close as it was in 1974! Anyway, I learned of this because one of the Elders on the committee that investigated this ABOMINATION was disgusted that the other elders (they are all dead now) wanted to protect Jehovah's name by doing NOTHING. This Elder and I were close friends and he came to me in anguish over what "justice" he had seen. He was shattered. I shattered too. He stayed, I left.

A while after this, Brother Serial Pedophile decided to marry a sister in another congregation who had two small children (her husband left her when she became a JW). The Elders never felt they ought to go to this sister and warn her about what she was marrying. They were married in a Kingdom Hall.

If I need to, I'l try to find references that support my argument.

Welcome aboard, I hope you stick around, Heydog!

42

Hello Everyone, Another JW Has Left!

by SuperGirl in

just want to introduce myself and let you know that this site is working and is a big help to lots of jws with doubts.

i've been lurking for about a year, the first couple of times i was frightened and literally shaking visiting an apostate site but it's the only place i can come to for sanity.

the religion has become a nut house.

Nathan Natas

WOW!

WELCOME, SuperGirl! Despite what the mentally diseased elders tell you, you won't find any Kryptonite here!

I'm an atheist, as are any here, and tell your ex - who seems admirably rational - that he might like it here too!

...and your son is one smart kid! Love him and support his efforts to be the best he can be!

Welcome again, we wish you the best!

42

Watchtower Corp of New York worth over$ 2 billion

by Diogenesister in

in the montana sex abuse court case for the first time watchtower has been required by the courts to give a financial statement to the court to assess awards of punitive damages for negligence and (for the first time)malice in non compliance of mandatory reporting laws.. watchtower corp of new york has finances in excess of $2 billion while cc of jw is worth $49 million.

this doesn't include the pensylvania corp or what overseas branches may have.. pretty healthy bank balance by any standards..

Nathan Natas

That amount just doesn't seem right to me - years ago I saw an estimate that the total worldwide cash flow for the WTB&TS was very close to ONE BILLION DOLLARS a year.

So I have to wonder if the WTB&TS has two sets of books - and if memory serves, W. E. van Amburgh, who was the long-lived Vice President and Secretary of the WTB&TS - admitted in court that he had two sets of books.

Today, no one remembers who WEVA was, just a few. Rutherford HATED WEVA because WEVA tried to be a good man. I'll admit he followed some wacky dogma, but I think that personally it would have been great to know him.

58

Two witness rule: who cares?

by _Morpheus in

i find people railing against the so called “two witness rule” puzzling.

i think its a complete and total non issue.

for those that protest, argue or advocate for change in that rule, why?

Nathan Natas

I'm glad Morpheus explained where he was coming from, because I was a bit like, "Wha.???" when I first read the thread. It is obvious I wasn't alone in my puzzlement.

My understanding of Morpheus' position is that he is saying "IGNORE THE WATCHTOWER'S RULES! The "two-witness rule" is an abomination! If you are a victim of Watchtower dogma, GO TO THE POLICE!"

Years ago right here on this site we had a kind of revolutionary revelation - we can REJECT the Watchtower's rules and refuse to play their game!

Don't suffer in silence - go to the legal authorities and talk to them about what happened to you! Contact one of the increasing number of attorneys who have experience with JW abuse cases and talk to them.

When we were in the Watchtower society were were taught a BIG LIE - that Jehovah cared about us. The TRUTH is that NO ONE will care about you more than you will. Resolve to speak for yourself!

11

Jehovah's Witness core Doctrine has changed over time. Has Dogma changed?

by TerryWalstrom in

first things first!let us define our terms: doctrine and dogma.doctrine: a codification of beliefs, taught principles, or positions.

dogma a set of principles laid down by an authority (in this case, the governing body, acting as the faithful slave of christ) as incontrovertibly true.

_____in the catholic church, dogma never changes but doctrines have over time.this sets me to wondering.

Nathan Natas

Phizzy said,

"I agree with the above 100%. But that "bedrock" is easily made to crumble away to nothing when the claim is examined in the light of Facts, History and Rational Thinking."

I'm with you on this - with a copy of "Captives of a Concept" read aloud the spell can be utterly shattered! Any seasoned XJW who has not read "CoaC" is doing themselves a dis-service.

"Captives of a Concept (Anatomy of an Illusion)" was written by Don Cameron and I am not him.

The Fall Guy also offered an excellent summary of the faith. Well done!

4

ATF: There have been 5 attacks on Jehovah's Witnesses in Washington state this year

by omikolestivengo in

https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/09/us/jehovahs-witnesses-attacks-washington-state/index.html.

(cnn)a fire last week at a jehovah's witnesses' house of worship in washington state was arson -- the fifth attack targeting the religious group this year, federal officials said sunday..

Nathan Natas

"The complete armor of God now includes a kevlar doilly for the sisters to submissively place on their heads and a fashionable kevlar fedora for the brothers. Both products can be purchased from the litter-ature servant.

Seriously, the True Christian Witness of Jehovah should avoid the involvement of the worldly Police and leave the matter in Jehovah's hands. Jehovah's powerful angels will see to it that the enemy of his faithful ones will be punished promptly. If no punishment is perceptible, we can only conclude that Jehovah has forgiven the aggressor.

Selah.

10

Counter Productive Witnessing Questions

by Vanderhoven7 in

a part of me would like to ask jws the following questions...but i know it would be rude and counter-productive.

so i also know i can expect some flack.. how well do you know your organization's history?

1. when, according to the wts did god promise to usher in a safe and secure new world order before those who witnessed the events of 1914 pass away?

Nathan Natas

My pleasure everyone, thank you; the honor is to serve.

But always remember, the first rule of Bible Fight Club is: Never talk about Bible Fight Club!

10

Counter Productive Witnessing Questions

by Vanderhoven7 in

a part of me would like to ask jws the following questions...but i know it would be rude and counter-productive.

so i also know i can expect some flack.. how well do you know your organization's history?

1. when, according to the wts did god promise to usher in a safe and secure new world order before those who witnessed the events of 1914 pass away?

Nathan Natas

Listener, if memory serves W. E. van Amburgh's 1924 "The Way to Paradise" (the forerunner of the pink "Paradise" book) actually presented this scenario.

See Chapter XI, "Princes in All the Earth," page 228

"...Let us suppose that you are living after the kingdom is established and the blessings have begun to flow out to the people in abundant measure. Of course it will take some time to get things in smoothly running order after the great stress between now and 1926. It may be ten years or more before you get your home all fixed up, and the gardens bringing forth the luscious fruits and appetizing vegetables in abundance. Even if it takes a while longer you will be that much better prepared. You will have secured the services of the best decorators you can find. Some of them used to be undertakers; but since there are no more people dying, they have had to seek some new occupation. Their experience as undertakers prepared them to become decorators with very little difficulty.

You have made all preparations for father and mother. The home is all ready; a special room is prepared for them, fitted with everything yon can think of that might give pleasure I and delight. You then call up thc princes at Jerasalein, state your case, and make request that your father and your mother might be awakened. In joyful expectancy you wait. Some morning you hear talking in the room you have prepared. There was no one there last night. You know that there are no thieves or intruders ; for all such experiences have been eliminated. You do not need to be fearful; so you listen at the door. You hear father's familiar voice saying, "Motlier, where are we? Are we dreaming? Why, I thought I attended your funeral last summer; then I was taken sick, and they had the doctor, and that is the last I can remember." Mother says : "I don't understand it either, Dear. The last I can remember is that I was so sick, and you and the doctors were standing at the bedside, and you were holding my hand. What has happened? We are not sick now, and this room is different from any room I ever saw. It is so beautiful anti everything is so peaceful. Just hear those birds sing, and did you ever? Why, where did you get that suit of clothes "you are as handsome as you were on our wedding day."

Father exclaims: "Well, suppose you give me a chance to ask you some questions I Where did you get that dress? You must be getting stylish in your old age. And you needn't talk to me about being good-looking. Look into the glass yourself. Well, I wonder what has happened, anyway. Are we in heaven or crazy or what?" You can stand it no longer. With heart running over with joy and all excitement, you burst open the door and rush in exclaiming, 'O Father! O Mother! you are neither, in heaven nor crazy. You are just here, your old dear selves. Yes! you are really here. I am so glad, so happy, that I don't know what to do. I just want to look at you, and love you, and touch you, to be sure you are really alive again. My! but you are looking well. I never saw you looking so handsome !" [story continues for several more pages.]

You can find poor quality free download copies of The Way to Paradise online, or you can purchase a high quality replica reprint from LuLu.com that I produced several years ago if you wish. The bulk of the price of the LuLu version is LuLu's cost of production and distribution. I make a couple of dollars.